Georgia
1 Sep 2008
It's Your Move, NATO
Russian-backed Abkhazian forces conducting pre-war exercises in May this year.
As Russia moves to recognise South Ossetian and Abkhazian independence, it looks like the rest of the world had better just deal with it, writes Terry Friel in Tbilisi
Despite clear warnings from the United States and Europe, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev this week recognised the independence of the rebel Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. After its short but bloody war with Tbilisi, Moscow's latest move ups the ante in a stand-off with the West that has some analysts predicting a new Cold War."This was always part of the plan to destroy Georgia and show the world who's boss," says the head of the Georgian Foundation for Strategic and International Studies (GFSIS), Alexander Rondeli. "They'd already decided [on independence] months ago."
Medvedev himself has made it clear that US and EU support for Kosovo's independence from Serbia this year was a key reason for Russia's military action in Georgia, which has led to a wider confrontation with the West. "We're not scared of anything, including the prospect of a Cold War — but of course we don't want it," Medvedev said on Kremlin-sponsored Russia Today television during the week.
Analysts say there is now virtually no chance Russia will withdraw its support for independence for Abkhazia and South Ossetia - both of whom have been promised Russian military support if they are attacked. "Russia is not going to go back on what it has done, in the same way that the United States and Europe are not going to go back on Kosovo," says the International Crisis Group's (ICG) Tbilisi-based Caucasus expert Lawrence Sheets, a 20-year veteran of the region.
How things stand for ordinary people in Abkhazia and South Ossetia right now is unclear. Journalists trying to get into South Ossetia, barely 30 kilometres from Tbilisi, are being threatened, abused and turned back at checkpoints manned by Ossetian militiamen at villages such as Alkhagori. According to Alexander Rondeli, of the Georgian Foundation for Strategic and International Studies (GFSIS), Georgians returning to their villages inside South Ossetia are being killed by Ossetians. "That's not ethnic tension," says Rondeli, "that's ethnic hatred already. It's a disaster, what's happening."
Tens of thousands of people have fled their homes. And despite two weeks of heavily publicised aid deliveries from overseas, aid workers say that little is actually getting through to those who need it, due to distribution problems, arguments among agencies over what approach they should take, and the continuing Russian military presence.
As Russian troops continue to hold key territory and infrastructure — like the major Black Sea oil port of Poti, which forced the United States to redirect a shipload of aid to Batumi to the south — Russia's neighbours are nervously coming to terms with the message it has sent. Azerbaijan has stopped piping its Caspian Sea oil and gas (along with much of Kazakhstan's) through Georgia to the Georgian and Turkish coasts; Ukraine is looking at beefing up its military and has raised the idea of charging more for Russia's Black Sea fleet to base itself at the Crimean port of Sevastopol; and Kazakhstan is considering pumping more of its oil and gas directly through Russia instead of building an undersea pipeline to Azerbaijan.
Baku, which loses $50 million every day that Georgian pipelines are empty, has already started shipping light crude through Iran — undermining US efforts to financially isolate Tehran over its nuclear program. And as the war started, Russia warned Poland it had made itself a "100 per cent" target for nuclear attack after Poland signed a deal with Washington to allow part of its new missile shield to be based on Polish soil. According to Thomas Goltz, an author and academic who has written several book on the Caucasus, "The most disastrous part of this thing is that it has exposed the hollowness, the emptiness of this thing called NATO, this thing called the West, this thing called Europe, and particularly this thing called the United States of America."
While most former Soviet republics are worried, it's NATO aspirant Ukraine that may be next to attract Russian attention. "What has happened is a threat to everyone, not just for one country," Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko warned during a visit this week by British Foreign Secretary David Miliband aimed at bolstering the pro-Western Kiev administration. "Any nation could be next, any country. When we allow someone to ignore the fundamental right of territorial integrity, we put into doubt the existence of any country," said Yushchenko, who almost died in a mysterious poisoning after he led his country's 2004 Orange Revolution.
Ukraine's population of 47 million includes a large Russian minority which is particularly well represented in its southeastern Crimean peninsula, an area with a long history of separatist movements. "It would take just a few levers to make something go down in Crimea," Sheets says, adding that to achieve strategic goals in that region, Russia would be more likely to stir local dissent to trigger political ructions rather than resorting to direct military action.
The agreement for Russia's fleet to use Sevastopol is due to expire in 2017 and Yushchenko has said it will not be renewed, another issue weighing heavily on Russia's mind. It relies on its warm water Black Sea fleet. Two years ago, Kiev accused Moscow of stirring protests over a NATO naval exercise in Crimea called Operation Sea Breeze. The "hypothetical" scenario behind the operation imagined a breakaway peninsula caught between a totalitarian government and a democratic one.
Russia is displaying a high level of immunity to diplomatic slaps on the wrist. It wields veto power in the United Nations Security Council, and at the moment all major Western military forces are mired in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Moscow has already said it no longer cares about its bid to join the World Trade Organisation, nor is it concerned about threats to take the 2014 Winter Olympics away from the Russian city of Sochi, just north of Abkhazia. "Russia doesn't care about respectability," says Rondeli. "Russia only cares about respect and fear." Russia also controls about 40 per cent of Europe's oil and gas supplies, giving it major economic leverage and fuelling both its income and national pride with record-high energy prices.
At the same time, some analysts — such as the ICG's Sheets — warn against alarmism, suggesting that Russia's actions are prone to over-interpretation. Of the anxious response by some former Soviet states, he says: "It's psychological scar tissue after being part of the Soviet Union for so long."
At this point, about a dozen US-led NATO naval vessels have moved into the Black Sea. They are helping deliver water, tents, medicine and food to war victims and at the same time show some level of force to Russia, analysts say. For its part, the Russian Black Sea fleet led by the cruiser Moskva is more active than normal.
According to US-based think-tank Stratfor.com, "The West, which has consistently backed the idea of Georgia's territorial integrity, broadly condemned the [independence] move, but has taken no action beyond rhetoric. Nor is it likely to in the short term. The West could deploy naval forces that can outmaneuver and box in Russia as a whole, but that requires time and political will.
"In the meantime, Russia has forces on the ground in the two territories and loads more nearby. The West doesn't. The Russians clearly are the ones determining the reality on the ground, and that — for now — is that."
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And to be consistent, Russia will now recognise Kosovo and grant Chechnya independence ? Like fuck they will.
‘The world had better just deal with it’ ? Like fuck. Fascist bastards.
Joe Lane
Adelaide
Every time that Putin tries to stand over the rest of the world, to bully it to declare that his smelly shit is made of gold, this poem of Auden’s leaps to mind, word for word:
The Ogre does what ogres can,
Deeds quite impossible for Man,
But one prize is beyond his reach,
The Ogre cannot master speech.
About a subjugated plain,
Among the desperate and slain,
The Ogre stalks with hands on hips,
And drivel gushes from his lips.
So not one country has recognised his invasion of Georgia ? And yet he will demand recognition of his invasion of these two bits of Georgia (total population: 200,000) but not of Kosova (population: 2 million) and Chechnya (population: 1.7 million). And lick-spittles will keep spouting about US aggression (Georgia had eight airplanes, Russia 800; Georgia had 80 tanks, Russia 8,000).
So the legal rights of Georgia, a sovereign country, to invite whoever the hell it likes to use its ports, train its defence forces, be on its territory, develop a pipe-line throug hits territory - these will somehow become dastardly by virtue of not being done by or with Russia. Meanwhile Russia can threaten Poland with nuclear attack, threaten Ukraine with invasion of its ports and naval bases - and the same tired old lick-spittles will leap to its defence.
No ? Watch this space …… Putin can shove his ‘near abroad’ imperialism crap back up his arse. And soone enough, the world will say so, so dear NM readers, judge carefully which way you are going to jump.
Joe
It must be so difficult to be a loyal lick-spittle these days, a true SPA member - and so confusing ! There’s Russia, breaking off bits of a sovereign country, and then there’s Serbia, demanding that a major bit of its would-be empire, Kosova, NOT be broken off, and that its tw0-million people’s wishes for self-determination be forever denied.
$ 100 says that Serbia will not EVER recognise Russia’s annexation of Georgia’s sovereign territory.
Make it $ 200: Neither Serbia OR China will ever recognise Russia’s annexation of Georgia’s sovereign territory.
Joe
This article frames things in a decidedly pro-Georgian, pro-US way (ie, "Baku, which loses $50 million every day that Georgian pipelines are empty, has already started shipping light crude through Iran — *undermining US efforts to financially isolate Tehran over its nuclear program*." for one clear example - what right has the US to decide affairs in the region at all? As Bush #1 said: ‘What we say goes’). I’d like to see more balanced articles from such an outlet as this, personally, rather than more of the same mainstream media one-sidedness.
It’s framed as though Georgia is suffering from ethnic hatred coming only one direction, but remember, well armed Georgian forces bombed the capital of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali for 72 hours, Georgia has strong US support, Georgia has followed US governance to put a US pipeline through its land, circumventing Russian interests in favour of USuk ones (amazing that so little of this is mentioned in relation to the event) for massive US ‘aid’ in military funding.
Russia’s entry to this fray clearly has a great deal to do with US interference with geopolitical extents which are (rightly or wrongly) traditionally Russian, and not American - except, of course, if we accept the right of the US to dominate the whole world for its own economic advantage (there is nothing benign about its partnership with the corrupt Georgian govt). Russia clearly does not accept that, or, at least, not any longer.
It’s also worth noting the steady stream of US bases popping up in the eastern and southern blocs, surrounding Russia on two fronts over the last few years, in direct contravention of agreements between the US and Russia in the last decade. These are commonly known as ‘first-strike’ bases (by anyone not beguiled by the misnomer of ‘shields’. There is an antagonist here, but its the usual one. Russia, is of course, not without fault, but this foray is a warning that the west is continuing to ignore in favour of self-righteous belief in its own essential goodness.
I would suggest reading
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c65798bc-6ec6-11dd-a80a-0000779fd18c.html
and this
http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2432197.0.0.php
and for a background to US ‘aid’ to Georgia (mentioned in the article):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR200808…
and finally, from Craig Murray (ex-UK ambassador in the region):
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2008/08/russiageorgia.html
cheers,
Derek
No, Dewrek, Georgia is not a ‘traditionally Russian’ possession, it is a sovereign nation, I pray for the day that lickspittles like you got that through your heads, but I’m not holding my breath.
And Russia getting ‘surrounded’ ? Six million square miles, with access to four seas, and it bullshits that it’s getting surrounded ?? Should the Czech Republic invade Poland to get to the sea, so that it doesn’t feel ‘surrounded’ ? Oh, sorry, I forgot, the Czech Republic is SMALL, not BIG like KGB Russia, which we should thereby fall on the ground and open our legs to, because it’s BIG.
And what ILLEGAL action has the US, like it or not, committed in supporting Georgia ? Provided lilitary aid ? Perfectly legal, whether you or I like it or not. Trained Georgian troops ? Perfectly legal. Built a pipeline through sovereign Georgia ? Perfectly legal. And 72 hour bombardment ? Bullshit. Did you complain about the ten-year bmbardment of Chechnya by your KGB mates ?
And the Georgian government is corrupt ? You are saying that the current KGB government is Russia is NOT corrupt ? Keep licking those power-arses, Derek, you’ll go far.
Oh, silly me, the new set of international principles is too sophisticated for me to understand properly. For example, the principle of unilaterally offering citizenship to people in other countries - I’ve heard now that both France and Germany are each going to offer citizenship to citizens of the other country in the Alsace-Lorraine area, so that they can militarily intervene if ‘their’ citizens are ever, in any way, under any sort of threat. Mexico is considering offering Texans and Californians citizenship, so that it can intervene militarily to protect them. The Irish government may do the same with northern Irish citizens. And, just to top it off, Kosova might offer citizenship to Albanian-speakers still living in Serbia and Macedonia. What a brilliant new principle of international stability !
There used to be a wonderful policy expert named Aaron Wildavsky, who wrote a key book in policy science called ‘Speaking truth to Power’. You could write a sequel, Derek, and call it ‘Giving Blow Jobs to Power’. The Russian and Venezuelan governments would be only to happy to print it.
Wildansky was an inspiring teacher and he used to encourage his brightest students to write books and articles with him with their names in alphabetic order, i.e. last, so that a book might be cited as ‘Pressman et al. (1976)’ or whatever. He died in 1993, the day after his first grandson was born.
I guess that, if he had tried to publish his book ‘Speaking Truth to Power’, in Russia, he would have been found on the side of the road with a bullet in his head, like this guy in Ingushetia yesterday. And his killer would have been off in Siberia shooting tigers the next day. KGB filth, but there will always be followers ready to lick it all up.
Joe
Sorry, in that second last paragraph, I meant to say that Wildavsky always put his now name last, so that the names of his colleagues always came first. He wouldn’t have got anywhere in Aboriginal academia these days like that. A truly wonderful man.
Joe
Gord ! ‘his OWN name …. ‘
Joe,
Please try reading the articles I posted before sounding off. It would save you some embarassment at your pro-US position.
"Georgia is not a ‘traditionally Russian’ possession, it is a sovereign nation, I pray for the day that lickspittles like you got that through your heads, but I’m not holding my breath."
If you read what I wrote, as opposed to what you think I wrote, you might note that I said that Georgia was in Russia’s geopolitical zone, not America’s. That’s a big difference to what you rephrased me as saying. Georgia bombed Ossetia. That is a major international breach of law. Russia took the law into its own hands for its own political interests (Ossetia being more sympathetic to Russia than to Georgia), which it shouldn’t have done. The UN could easily have dealt with such a problem (had it not been systemically violated by the US to the point of meaninglessness). If you read one the the articles I posted, you’ll find the first full paragraph denigrating Putin and his actions, specifically so that people from the pro-USuk camp (you perhaps?) don’t accuse the author of subservience to Russia when he then puts in the other side of the story. Its as tiresome a thing to need doing as at the start of the Iraq invasion to need to utter the obligatory denigration of Saddam prior to defending Iraq’s right to not be invaded, for fear of the accusation that those defending Iraq were defending a tyrant.
A minor point: your new term ‘lickspittle’ is juvenile, and nasty. If you wish to communicate with others, please try to refrain from such nonsense.
There’s no denying the fact the US is doing just that (surrounding Russia). You can choose to ignore it, but geopolitically, that’s exactly it’s aim. You don’t build a ‘missle defense’ system in Poland except as a transparent ‘first-strike’ policy against Russia. Russia is not stupid. US interests in the southern states (Georgia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgistan, Poland and a few others) politically via ‘aid’ and ‘funding’ is creating a political base for US control over the region, over that of Russia. You can be sure US interests are no more benevolent than Russia’s. If you build bases in these surrounding countries, you are deliberately putting the people of those countries at risk by a belligerent foreign policy, against a nation which is (now) recovering into its previously very strong military position. You can hate Russia, but you can’t ignore the real source of these military threats, which is the US. If you do, you oversimplify the case, and assume US dominance as the global status quo. Russia won’t be doing that in the near future any more than its likely for the US to decide, actually, this imperialism venture is getting out of hand.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/FOR502A.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0810/p06s02-wosc.html
http://www.energy-daily.com/reports/US_missile_plan_is_surrounding_Russi…
As I said, I’d like to see more balance and background in articles outside of the mainstream, which, disappointingly, I haven’t seen here.
"Did you complain about the ten-year bmbardment of Chechnya by your KGB mates ?"
Yes, actually. You can read about it on my website.
"And the Georgian government is corrupt ? You are saying that the current KGB government is Russia is NOT corrupt ?"
Yes to the first, and no to the second. I’m not saying that. That wasn’t my point. My point was, a one-sided story paints Russia as the big evil, which, by proxy puts the US as the saviour, and Georgia as the victim. The real victims here were Ossetians, but we’re not talking about them so much as the Georgians. Why?
Evidently I’ve got under your skin (again) Joe. But I don’t need to take abuse from you. If you have something valid and civil to say about the international politics of this war, then by all means, do it. ‘Shouting’ just looks foolish. People will disagree with you. You will need to get used to that, preferably without getting abusive.
And finally, though it probably doesn’t warrant the response, I’ll give it. Noone is defending the KGB. I would much rather be alive and ignored in my non-democratic oligarchy, where the propaganda is insidious enough that most believe it, than dead for speaking out in a country where noone believes what they read, but don’t speak for fear. However, what the USuk (and its partners) do in foreign states is very often far worse than what Russia does in its home (mass civilian slaughter, bombing of civilian power, water and hospitals, torture, disappearing). Russia is only one of many nations which treat their citizens badly. The US, for example, does great business with many tyrants equal to, and exceeding Putin, even in the same region. Georgia’s leader may be one (bombing an unarmed civilian city surely shows he *might* be). So, by some definitions, since Russia is bad, when Georgia and Russia come to blows, Georgia’s leadership ceases to be bad in the face the the badder Russia.
Sorry, I’d like to see both sides. The one-sided argument only serves the USuk interests (demonising Russia and saintifying the US for its help). That’s obviously erroneous, and wouldn’t show with a better picture.
cheers,
Derek
Derek,
Georgia is in nobody’s zone, if somehow this excuses the obscene behaviour of their ‘overlord’. It is not in the US’s, and it is not in Russia’s, any ,more than Russia is in Georgia’s ‘zone’, or Russia is part of Georgia’s ‘near abroad’. Stop thinking like an imperialist, Derek.
No, I do not have a pro-US stance, only a violently anti-Russian fascist stance, and a pro-Georgian independence stance. I don’t care about the US, it can go to buggery as far as I am concerned. If it does anything illegal or improper, let me know. Has it done anything yet which is illegal or improper ? Has it offered citizenship to Chechens ? Has it promised that it will come to their aid if they revolt and has it got 8,000 tanks on Russia’s borders ? No, Georgia has 80 tanks across Georgia, where it hasd every right to have them. Has the mighty, far-thinking US armed Georgia to the teeth with planes ? No, eight, against the fascists’ eight hundred. Has the US got thousands of specialists training Georgian troops - which it and Georgia would have every right to as sovereign nations able to enter int ocontracts ? No ? 173 ? How many tro0ps could 173 specialist train up ? 10,000 ? Against russia’s millions ? And has Russia got trainers on Georgian territory arming thugs to the teeth ? I think so.
If the US has been intent on arming Georgia to the teeth in order to stir up trouble for the peace-loving fascists and Cossacks and Old Church Orthodoxy, then it has done a pretty lousy job.
Interesting logic: the US does business with tyrants even worse than Putin - oooooooh, poor Putin ! So picked on ! So neglected ! How hurt he must feel ! Nasty US ! Working with all the tyrants but one. The US should be an equal-rights tyrant-server !!!
Bombing an unarmed civilian city ? Do you mean Grozny or Gori ? Oh yes, you’re half-right - Russia can bomb Grozny as much as it f*cking like because it’s in Russia. But wait a minute - Tskhinvali and Gori are in Georgia. But then, did Georgia bomb any city in Russia ? No, actually. Hmmmmmmm …… But Georgia still bad, Russia good !
Save your bullshit for someone else, Derek.
Apart from all that, how’s it going, cousin ?
Joe
"It is not in the US’s, and it is not in Russia’s, any ,more than Russia is in Georgia’s ‘zone’, or Russia is part of Georgia’s ‘near abroad’."
But they are, of course. And, sadly, small nations bordering big ones must pay closer attention to the actions they take which may affect the larger ones close by than in the opposite direction, because of the military threat. Georgia, however, is not without it’s faults, and South Ossetia is no more part of Georgia than the Palestinian territories are part of Israel, so another (albeit minor) imperialist invasion by Georgia is unjustified. Using the ogre of Russia to make it acceptable is the height of western arrogance.
If third party imperialist nations like the US get involved in issues well away from their own turf, Georgia must know that such will make Russia at the least uncomfortable (just as if for the US, Russia were to build a base in Canada). Canada might legally allow it (so perfectly justifiable in your view), but how might you imagine such an act to be interpreted by the US, or by the world in general? Of course, it would be seen for what it was; a first-strike initiative by Russia. Similiarly, how might Australia react to Iran deciding to build a base in Indonesia? A lot different, I would suggest, than if Indonesia decided to build an Indonesian base in Indonesia.
In geopolitics, each nation (not just the big ones) has a sphere of influence over the surrounding nations, in trade, military intervention etc. Georgia’s decision to side with the US, and provide for US interests (pipelines) actually disables Russia’s ability in part to most easily transport its own resources to the world, for commerce. Georgia weighs up the pros (US aid) with the cons (Russian discontent). The geopolitical zones of Russia include Georgia, and Georgia’s geopolitical zones include Russia. The US doesn’t come into it, *except* as a rampant imperialist aggressor.
Perhaps you might consider indulging in the idea that discarding US interest from this picture is dishonest, (despite how unimportant one might consider the world’s main imperialist superpower). I’m not saying anything you can easily contest here - I strongly suspect that what you object to is any kind of defense which doesn’t cast Russia as the ultimate baddy, but the world isn’t so simple.
cheers,
Derek
Derek,
What are we talking about ? Countries as if they are animals ? The bigger they are, the more dangerous, so don’t annoy them ? This is law of the jungle stuff, totally out of place in the modern world. In fact, isn’t exactly what people in small countries, such as Latin and South America, complain about the US - and quite rightly ? Just because a countr yis BIG, gives it no rights over countries that are small !
And south Ossetia has always been part of Georgia, which allowed Ossetian refugees from the Mongols and later, ironically, from the Tsarist hordes, to settle there, in the twelth and eighteenth centuries respectively. Ossetians’ homeland is north of the Caucasus, i.e. in north Ossetia. And this is beside the point: Georgia is not an ethnic state, it is a state with very many ethnic groups, with a Georgian, multi-ethnic, parliament and government. And as such, it has sovereignty over Abkhazia, Ajaria and south Ossetia - no other country has legal and internationally-recognised sovereignty over those invaded bits. They remain Georgian territory, regardles of which fascists invade them, just as Poland remained Poland, regardless of the Nazi invasion.
Yes, i would see nothing particularly wrong if Cuba decided to build an air base for eight planes, and a tank park for eighty tanks in Cuba, ninety miles from florida. and I don’t think that the US would give much of a toss either. Eight planes and eighty tanks do not an armed force make. But by gee, they are handy as a pretext for jumping up and down and screaming about a US conspiracy - then invading. Very useful indeed.
‘Georgia’s decision to side with the US, and provide for US interests (pipelines) actually disables Russia’s ability in part to most easily transport its own resources to the world, for commerce.’ How ? What did the US do there that was illegal ? If the Russians, to use one of your analogies, helped Canada build a pipeline, would that be sufficient excuse for the US to seize Alberta, with a bit of British Columbia for good measure, and then demand that the world recognise it as either (or both) independent from Canada, and an inalienable part of the US ? Clearly you might think so, but I would strongly disagree: the US would have no right to interfere in the legal dealings of two sovereign nations coming to an agreement which in no way interfered with the US. That would be Canadian geopolitics. Canadian oil is Canadian, nothing to do with the US ! Sorry, Derek, you may think the US has some rights as an imperialist nation, but I would defend Russia’s right and Canada’s legal and proper right strongly to agree to build such a pipeline. I know we part company on this matter, but there you go. I wish the world were that simple, big powers with rights that little countries don’t have, the right to bully and threaten, but I don’t go along with that. Sorry.
Cheers,
Joe
"And this is beside the point: Georgia is not an ethnic state, it is a state with very many ethnic groups, with a Georgian, multi-ethnic, parliament and government. And as such, it has sovereignty over Abkhazia, Ajaria and south Ossetia"
You’ve just said big against small isn’t how things should work, and you’re right. And then you proceeded to describe big against small. Ossetia can’t be separate (as they think/wish - having declared independence in the 90s) because Georgia is bigger and doesn’t wish it so.
And the big against small here is the US using Georgia as a pawn in its bellicose imperialism in these bordering nations against Russia. Georgia is the small guy, but in the middle, and even smaller is South Ossetia - bombed, presumably, because Georgia’s decided that with the military help the US has been giving it, it can once again try to take Ossetia. This time it didn’t work, because even bigger came along.
Yes, its the law of the jungle. No, it shouldn’t be. But the two lions are the US *and* Russia here, not just one. We shouldn’t act like it is.
cheers,
Derek
Derek,
I agree with some of your points, but also think you have misunderstood some elements of the article and other issues. The previous article in particular highlighted some of the serious problems and "showmanship" of the aid process here
I’d rather discuss this offline, if you feel like it. You can email me at samarqand@mac.com
Cheers,
Terry
douglas jones
The double standard is alive and well, international relations are still run on the basis of misinformed emotional hype promulagated by the media who recapitu;layte their bosses words. The powerplay of those who think national interest justifies.Here some are hurt that is some of the populace for whom our masters say they act what hope Climate cahnge being succesfully met. Who would like to run a book on which countries will be sacrificed in the name of climate change? Africa and? Iraq again!
Contemptible crap, Derek. But whatever.
So now Medvedev is preparing the way for a complete invasion of Georgia ? Saakachvili, he says, is a corpse, the government of Georgia doesn’t exist - so, out of the goodness of their hearts, Russia will now proceed to liberate and save Georgia ? And then incorporate it into Mother Russia, the land of the Mafia, state capitalism and the KGB ?
You mongrels.
Time to get a few things straight here. Georgia 1:2 Ireland. That made me very happy. The invasion of Georgia and the de facto annexation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia by Russia did not. These two regions were part of Georgia when it gained its independence, and were recognised as such under international law. At the time of the recent Russian invasion, both areas were still officially recognised as sovereign Georgian territory.
If Russia recognises both of those areas as fully independent nations, I would venture that we should throw our support behind Chechnya and Ingoshetya. Maybe Russia would secede North Ossetia as an example of goodwill.
I doubt it. It seems as though hordes of New Matilda readers seem to regard George Bush as the anti-Christ, and Vladimir Putrid, sorry Putin, hero of Beslan and the Kursk, saviour of the Russian press and he who put an end to the collective misery known as Yukos, as the New Messiah.
Sorry to burst the bubble, folks. Medvedev is the Russian president, but in name only. Putrid pulls the strings, with his all-action, martial art, huntin’ fishin’ shootin’ style of doing things. Vlad is, in short, a f***dog.
The USA has been getting a lot of stick about sticking its neb into other countries’ business, and then doing nothing about what happens afterwards, at least in this article and set of responses.
Well, remember East Timor, my Antipodean friends? Enough said.
Georgia is a sovereign country. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are still part of its sovereign territory, no matter what Russia might think, and no matter what some New Matilda readers may opine. All hail the Republic of Chechnya and the Free Union of North and South Ossetia. Or, perhaps not?
Answer on a postcard to the usual address please, hypocrites?
Good on you, Patman, you are an honorary Australian for life. But the KGB doesn’t hold all the cards: throw up "Turkey Georgia" on Google News, and check out the suddenly friendly relations between Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and central Asian countries. Yes, Turkey and Armenia ! China and the central Asian countries seem to be seeking to have access to Europe other than through Russia, and the east-west flow of goods and services is going to massively step up through those countries at the bottom of the Caspian Sea through to the Black Sea - and to the Mediterranean as well. Left fascists may believe that Russia has some divine right to monopolise oil and gas and the flow of goods east-to-west, but those countries don’t seem to think so.
So what can Russia do ? Invade the entire Caucasus ? No, you may say. Yes exactly, a Polish friend told me yesterday. And let’s face it, the Poles been bitten a few times in history by the Bear.
Another thing: what Russia’s invasion might have also done is to massively boost the links between Turkish/Turkic countries from Kyrgyzistan and Uzbekistan right across to Azerbaijan and Turkey, including Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan, and to further the cause of Greater Turkestan. These countries already have very close links, and by bringing Georgia and now Armenia on-side, they form a belt right across the bottom of Russia, somewhat beyond its God-given ‘near abroad’. If China is sensible, it will go gentle on the Uighurs in Turkestan (Sinjiang) and rapidly boost its relations with central Asia and Turkey: expect to see glowing reports in China View and Xinhua on the visit of Hu Jintao or somebody at that level to Turkey, and vice versa.
Perhaps one reason for the Russian invasion of Georgia was the agreement between Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan in late July to complete the railway from Baku through Georgia into Turkey - a railway which will now take goods directly from China through to England without any need for re-shipment, and of course passengers as well. A pipeline from Baku through Armenia to Mediterranean Turkish ports is now being re-considered. So it’s not a matter of Russia being ‘surrounded’ - how do you surround six million square miles ? - but of Russia being bypassed, its monopoly powers f*cked. And that must have Russia’s fascist-Left lickspittles furious by proxy, all ready to lap up the latest KGB vomit, to serve the Ogre:
The Ogre does what ogres can,
Deeds quite impossible for Man,
But one prize is beyond his reach,
The Ogre cannot master speech.
About a subjugated plain,
Among the desperate and slain,
The Ogre stalks with hands on hips,
And drivel gushes from his lips.
Joe